Thursday, January 20, 2011
Discussion Post 2: The Handmaid's Tale Chapters 5-9
For this post, I would like you to choose a quote in the book or observation about the reading that you think is important to write about. This can be important to the rest of the novel, or it can in some way relate to our society today. After writing a paragraph about this, I would like you to comment on another classmates post about their reading and incorporate your own opinion of this portion as well. In this way, this will be an assignment containing two posts. Please email with any questions.
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The quote that I have chosen to write on is as follows:
ReplyDelete“There is more than one kind of freedom, said Aunt Lydia. Freedom to and
freedom from. In the days of anarchy, it was freedom to. Now you are
being given freedom from. Don't underrate it.”
-Chapter 5, The Handmaids Tale, Margaret Atwood
I believe that this quote holds great significance to the message of the novel because it talks about how there is more than just one type of freedom that exists. This is an interesting concept because when I think of my own freedom I do not necessarily think of concrete, different types of freedom that I may or may not have; instead I think of a gradual progression towards or away from having complete freedom (one’s ability to do literally whatever they think – on both a cognitive and physical level) or completely lacking freedom (total enslavement of one’s own mind and body). This is an interesting quote in reference to Atwood’s Handmaid’s Tale because in the novel women are heavily deprived of so many of their rights that make up their freedom. To make things worse, these women haven’t been deprived of their rights ever since they can remember; they instead have been deprived of them – and so many of them for that matter – in a relatively short period of time. This is known because of the references Atwood makes through the character “Offred” about memories and flashbacks from her life that she remembers before and from gossip from one of the marthas was dispensing about how she could have been a handmaid if she hadn’t had her tubes tied “years ago.” These are two of several things that are found in the first few chapters of the Handmaid’s Tale that makes it seem as if the enslavement of the women to be human incubators and maids is a relatively recent and extremely taken event. As can be seen from the evidence provided above, due to extreme reduction of women’s rights and the haste to which it was applied it would make things seem as if the freedom is no longer a progressive movement towards more free or less free, but instead it makes it seem as if it is a completely different type of freedom altogether.
-Andrew Spaedy
In regards to Serena Joy's transition from lobbyist to practitioner of the current social state in the novel, Atwood writes, "She doesn't make speeches anymore. She has become speechless. She stays in her home, but it doesn't seem to agree with her. How furious she must be, now that she has been taken at her word" (Atwood 46).
ReplyDeleteFor her example of reaping what you sow, just before this quote the novelist describes Serena Joy prior to the social upheaval as a melodramatic, makeup slathered hairspray queen. She preaches about a woman's place while reluctant to stay there herself. Now she has her wish and is confined to the very place she said she belonged, and is miserable. I once read an article in The Rolling Stone by a journalist who infiltrated a teaparty rally. He interviewed several people who there to support some common agenda, one of which was for a weaker medicare and medicaid system. Ironically, many of the attendees he interviewed were on government funded health systems and even depended on that funding to put them in scooters so that they could attend. How ironic, that they were demanding a smaller budget for the very thing. But it isn't that they want anyone to take away THEIR health care privilages. THEY worked for it and THEY deserve it. But THOSE people. The others. The ones that "take advantage" of it, don't appreciate it. Everyone else. Those who lecture loudest and longest should be willing to practice what they preach.
Near the beginning of Chapter 6, Atwood writes, “When we think of the past it’s the beautiful things we pick out. We want to believe it was all like that,” (Atwood, 30). I believe that this basic concept can be applied to many different events in our lives. Furthermore, it even describes the basic ways we tell history. Take, for example, the time when Europe “discovered” America: the truth is, America had been occupied for centuries by the Native Americans that were basically wiped out by disease and violence the explorers brought with them. Yet, many textbooks made in America tend to overlook or underestimate the impact Europeans had on the Native people. This is an example of how history is told by those who are there to tell it. Not only can this apply on a nation-wide scale, but also on a personal level; when a loved one has passed away, we tend to focus on their accomplishments rather than their shortcomings. This way, we tend to idealize our moments with them and sometimes lose sight of what actually happened. Overall, because we as a society tend to focus on our greatest moments rather than our failures, bad moments in history have a horrible reputation of repeating itself, sometimes on a grander scale than before. I believe that the city of Gilead has gone through the same problem when it comes to the treatment of women. In the past, women have always been considered a minority, but unlike those women, the women in Gilead had freedom taken away from them. As a result of having experienced freedom and losing it, there are probably many women like our protagonist who struggle to fit into society and have no way of expressing their loss.
ReplyDeleteThe quote I chose is from Chapter 6:
ReplyDelete"Ordinary, said Aunt Lydia, is what you are used to. This may not seem ordinary to you now, but after a time it will. It will become ordinary."
- Chapter 6, The Handmaids Tale, Margaret Atwood
I believe that our society can relate to this quotation because of what’s happening now days. We have become accustom to a life style in which murder, rape, etc. has become like a social norm. For example, when the news reports a rape or murder victim, we have become so use to it that it is “ordinary” toward us to hear of such things. Likewise, in The Handmaid’s Tale, Offred and Ofglen were standing by the Wall, looking at the bodies of people who have been hanged by Gilead. Offred remembers what Aunt Lydia said about how the Gilead life style will become ordinary for them one day. Another example is the way people dress. In The Handmaid’s Tale, Offred and Ofglen look at the tourists, who were visiting Gilead, in disgust because of what they were wearing, feeling something out of the ordinary. Personally, since being a Muslim I feel like wearing my head scarf is a normal thing and has become a part of who I am. At first I was a bit hesitant about wearing my scarf considering people were constantly staring at me from left to right. However, now I have gotten used to it and became a part of me; almost like an everyday routine. Each person has their own definition of what ordinary means coming from what they do in their everyday life. Whether it’s from their family, culture, religion, or even the media each person has their own customs which they have grown up with that they consider sociably acceptable
Heather,
ReplyDeleteAfter reading your response I too find it interesting how some people preach things that seem to be ironic. I too have read an article that described a situation very similar to your motor scooter rally for lower funding towards Medicare. I think that people in our society just assume that because certain people are getting help for their troubles that they are ungrateful if they don’t do something to show it in some blatantly obvious way. One thing that your post made me think about is the low income individuals who live in the projects and the ghettos of large cities. I think that it is so easy to say that these people are ungrateful because they are ‘obviously’ not working very hard in school and in their businesses because if they were they would be making ‘real’ money, and that the money that is supporting them that they are getting they don’t deserve because they don’t work hard enough. As a member of an upper income household, I too once used to possess a mentality very similar to this one. Although the years of my studies – not just in school, but also in my everyday life – have showed me that not all people are created equally. We are all born into different families and all have different stories that shape our life’s path. This relates to the Handmaids Tale to some extent because not all women are blessed enough to have the ability to bare children. Also the handmaids are the ones who are seen as better off and the marthas that were gossiping made it seem like Offred has it better off and that she is undeserving (by the look on their faces when Offred opened the door on them).
Atwood describes the thoughts of the Handmaid Offred: "I would like to believe this is a story I'm telling...If it's a story I'm telling, then I have control over the ending. Then there will be an ending, to the story, and real life will come after it. (Atwood 39)
ReplyDeleteSadly, that's the way things in today's society are, bad things continually happen each day.Some days the bad may effect us more personally then other days. Just watching the local news, world news, reading the newspaper, or posts on the internet a majority of our "news" shared is terrible things. Just today the BREAKING news in the newspaper were things from "Babysitter charged for death of Baby boy", "Police find man's body in alley", "convict gets 25 years for murder", "suspects prey on stuck motorists and rob them", "to drug busts". Who gave those people the right to chose those actions or the feeling that they had the power to do so. For granted nothing or no one is perfect, a utopic world would most likely end up going corrupt in some way. There will always be things that happen that we don't want to, we are definately not always going to get our way. But why all the killing and deceitful actions. No one ever granted only certain people to do these tragic things that effect not only that person but their family, friends, coworkers, and anyone close to that person. The people hurt don't want to accept the reality of the tragedy they are faced with, to them they want to "wake up from that horrible dream". Just like in "The Handmaid's tail" Offred and Ofglen see the people hanging from the wall, or Offred losing her mother. Offred or Ofglen didnt want those to incidents to be real, they dont want to be living their life the way they are, but (like people today) they are doing what they have to get through each day and continue on with life. Each day hoping there is an end to it all, a return to their old life or something like it. A time and place to meet and be with all the ones they love again. They are coping, beliving it's a story and it's not real just a dream, but it can't last forever. COPING - making themselves believe things and do things to deal with the stress and depression they feel. A common technique of people in today's society; HOPE that there is an end to the "dream" of tragic happenings.
Houdah,
ReplyDeleteYou really couldnt have explained your quotation any better. It is so true that everyone develops their own version of "ordinary", based off so many things. And sometimes people develop their own ordinary thinking their's is the best and they aren't exactly open minded to someone else's ordinary and they begin to judge that person and talk about them. Like the tourists in the Handmaid's tale as you stated, they knew their ordinary and norm, but were "fascinated" enough in Offred and Ofglen's different ordinary they wanted to take a picture. Whether the picture be form a rememberance or possibly even to share with their community back home. Everyone lives a different life from one another in many aspects so when thinking of our ordinary we have to remember that that is our own personal ordinary. And yes sometimes or ordinary is adjusted by someone, but eventually it will become ordinary after enough time and repitition. We should not judge people, stare, or talk and discuss someone else's ordinary because they might feel the same about our own. I totally agree with you and I am sure that at some point in most people's life they have felt the same way as you about someone looking at them funny or saying something that related to their own personal ordinary. I personally can relate.
I almost gasp: he's said a forbidden word. Sterile. There is no such thing as a sterile man anymore, not officially...."It's too dangerous," I say. "No. I can't." (p. 61)
ReplyDeleteThis quote is indicative of the protagonist’s growing internal conformity to the society around her. There are other quotes throughout this novel that point to this idea. The protagonist’s reaction to the doctor, what he says, what he offers her, demonstrates that her way of thinking has begun to adapt to the thinking that society in this area wants every member to follow. No matter how much she dislikes or tries to reject the system that she is put under, the protagonist begins to think the way they want her to. This is not uncommon even now, though it is much subtler. Whatever environment one puts him or herself in, one will inevitably be affected by that environment. People are swayed in certain directions depending on what kind of environment they are in. We like to think that we are immovable, that we cannot be manipulated, but no matter how hard we may try, we are unavoidably affected by those around us and their own beliefs and methods.
Amina,
ReplyDeleteYou made such a great point! The examples you used were really great too. I think we also use this way of thinking as a way of coping with our current situations as well. Sometimes all we can do from letting go completely is think of the past and how good the “good old days” were. It’s hard to think that things were always bad because that means that things will most likely always be bad until the end of our lives. So, if we believe that the way things were, were good days, we create a hope that things can return their former state, to a “good” state.
Houdah,
ReplyDeleteI also believe you explained this quote really well. I especially liked how you pointed out how other people’s “ordinary” vary from individuals. Many times, society has trouble understanding other people’s definitions which causes tension, misunderstanding, and resentment. I believe this can not only happen between two vastly different cultures, such as in the book, but also within individuals or small groups in a common niche. Over time, small differences between these types of groups can build up over time. As a result, the two groups under a common name become completely different. The tension between Econowives, the Marthas, and the Handmaidens is a prime example of this: though they live in the same society and both consist of women, they have completely different worth in society and attitudes due to slight differences. In modern society, divisions such as the Democrats vs. Republicans (both American government), Shi'ites vs. Sunnis (both Islamic), and Catholics vs. Protestants (both Christian), have emerged to being so different from each other, though they started out similar. Unfortunately, a common theme is that the groups that are the most similar to each other fight the most.
I chose my quote very early on, from chapter 5. “There are women other women with baskets, some in red, some in the dull green of the Marthas, some in the striped dresses, red and blue and green and cheap and skimpy, that mark the women of the poorer men. Econowives, they’re called.” (p. 24)
ReplyDeleteThis quote really spoke to me because it helps lay the foundation of the novel. In sociology, there is a term called symbolic interaction where everything in society is given meaning based on the symbolic communication between social actors; interaction is the communication between people, while a symbol meaningfully represents something. This whole book is about how the normal classification system was abolished where occupations such as university professors and lawyers were taken away and replaced with a hierarchy of individuals who concentrated on the blossoming of their kind with the help of the handmaids. In our society today, although we don’t concentrate solely on reproduction but we do classify people based on what they wear and we do judge them. If someone wears something name brand, although we may not know them, we can start to imagine their lifestyle and how well off they may be. Atwood is drawing a parallel from current society and saying that we will always be a comparison and hierarchy among individuals even if intellectual professions were taken away, because that is what the human race has done throughout the course of history and will do for the rest of time.
Evan,
ReplyDeleteYour post about the indecencies that occur in society was written really well and it conveys the fact that our society as a whole has indeed been desensitized to violent acts. The root of this process seems to be the prevalence of violence in the lives of young people. From the video games that they can partake in to the new that they watch on TV, they have so many opportunities to see negative things yet in order to cope with them, we forget them and that is kind of what is happening in The Handmaid’s Tale. The women, including Offred, have been living in such a dreary world that in order to live there and survive, they must choose to accept it as their reality. That seems to be a common coping mechanism in many oppressive situations although that isn’t the healthiest way to deal with problems because accepting it causes the problem to persist and torment you. All in all, Offred’s tactics for dealing with the oppression of women is very characteristic of someone in a bleak situation and even though the reader such as you and me may yearn for her to rebel and set the entire society straight, the reality is that no such turnaround can happen because it’s just a part of their world. So we have to accept it.
Evan,
ReplyDeleteI completely agree with what you wrote. Now days our society is suffering from racism, wars, and recessions that are causing people to react in such a terrible manner. The more the world advances, the more problems occur. We live in a world where hoping for the best and expecting the worst is our motto. In some ways we actually do live like the people in the Handmaid's Tale. We are subjected to our own beliefs and we take those beliefs and form a protective cover around ourselves. Even though religion is a choice, its a way of establishing balance in the world. Everybody wants to have the upper hand, whether its men or women, we want control over our lives and the things in it. You asked why all the killing and deceitful actions. There's no such thing as a perfect world, let alone a perfect person, everybody is sinful. Each individual has their own story, and just like in the Handmaid's Tale we can control our own ending. Some choose to do right and others choose to do wrong.
“The kitchen smells of yeast, a nostalgic smell. It reminds me of other kitchens, kitchens that were not mine…This is a treacherous smell, and I know I must shut it out.”
ReplyDeleteThe character’s abhorrent response to the smell of bread is indicative of a recurring theme in this novel. The handmaids used to have their own lives and live in freedom, but now are controlled in every way. The protagonist mentions several objects that remind her of her past life, and then quickly changes the subject. These ideas of the past are painful because she wishes she could experience them again. However, since she knows this is not possible, she tries her hardest to forget. She shuts out her past life so her she can stand her new one.
Many people in our society respond the same way. When bad things happen to us, we tend to shut them out. Completely shutting out the past especially occurs with very traumatic endeavors, such as a child who suffered a disturbing childhood and refuses to recall any childhood memories. Even with less troubling occurrences we tend to not reflect on upsetting events such as a break up or the loss of a loved one. When distressing events occur in our lives, we try not to think about them least we agonize over the past, and are unable to endure the present.
Anchal,
ReplyDeleteI thought you made a really good point. Although social roles are obviously displayed on individuals in the novel, we can tell where others fit into our society based on more subtle cues such as the brand of clothing they wear, the type of car they drive, how expensive their house is, etc. Based on these visual indicators, we assess the social class of individuals in our society the same way the characters do in the novel. Though the required dress of the different stations in the book makes judging others easier, we still participate in the same labeling in our culture.
Houdah, that's a great quote; I liked that one, too. The world is culturally diverse and what is sanctioned or considered deviant in one culture may not be so in another. But people aren't born with instincts to behave in certain ways regardless of where they are born. We adapt to the societies in which we are raised based on what is considered "normal" within the confines of our environment. The more people travel and explore outside their own territories, the more ABnormal things may seem. "Normal" is only fact in the context in which the individual observer sees it.
ReplyDeleteIn the opening of chapter seven, the protagonist of the story describes, "The night is mine, my own time, to do with as I will, as long as I am quiet. As long as I don't move. As long as I lie still..." (Atwood, 37). Not only is this statement a complete contradictory, but it very well illustrates how unbelievably restricted the lives of these women are and the limited freedoms that they each hold. Every aspect of their life is controlled, and it is all because of their sex. As wrong as this may sound, I can understand how women either tried drowning themselves or cutting themselves to escape the life that they were forced to live. The night is something that I can see some women looking forward to because they can do "whatever they want", when in reality, they then still can't do anything they want. I can't even imagine being in a situation like this-- the quote where the main character answers the interpreter, "Yes, we are happy" (Atwood, 29), was extremely disconcerting to read because I don't believe that this kind of life could lead to happiness. And Lastly, Although our society does not go to the same extreme as the society in Handmaid's Tale regarding women and their role/worth, women today still experience sexism, and I believe that that is something that will always linger within our society.
ReplyDeleteTowards the end of chapter 5, Offred is approached by Japanese tourists who wish to take her picture. She denies their wish and thinks back to something Aunt Lydia had said to her. "Modesty is invisibility, said Aunt Lydia. Never forget it. To be seen - to be seen - is to be - her voice trembled - penetrated."(Atwood 28) This makes it seem like the best thing the handmaids can do for themselves is to be as undetectable as they possibly can. To be seen by others, such as the tourists, is shameful and a disgrace. It is a violation of sorts. In regards to Aunt Lydia’s use of “modesty”, a definition I found described modesty as a freedom from conceit or vanity. I thought this was quite interesting after reading the quote Adin chose to report on, especially the part “In the days of anarchy, it was freedom to. Now you arebeing given freedom from.”(Atwood 24) I see “freedom from” as a restriction. It’s the freedom to choose not to do something or restrain from taking action. In the Republic of Gilead, it may seem like a liberty but in fact it is just another form of control.
ReplyDelete"The old gravestones are still, there weathered, eroding, with their skulls and crossed bones, memento mori, their doughfaced angels, their winged hourglasses to remind us of the passing of mortal time, and, from a later century, their urns and willow trees, for mourning."
ReplyDeleteThere are two words in this quote that made it stick out to me. Momento mori is a Latin phrase that means "Remember your mortality" or "Remember you will die". I feel that memento mori should be a saying that our society today lives by. Everyone should live their life to the fullest and not think about other people or the things around them. If everyone worried about themselves and making the best out of their life there wouldn't be all the hatred and crime we have in todays world. When you die you want everyone to remember you by something good that you did or what a great person you were. There is no need for this world today to be based off money or jobs or even your last name, it should be based on what you have ahead of you. This saying makes me wonder what our society today would be like if thats what our motto was.
"This is the heart of Gilead, where the war cannot intrude except on television. Where the edges are we aren't sure, they vary, according to the attacks and counter attacks; but this is the center, where nothing moves."
ReplyDeletewhat I feel is interesting is that these people live in a society built on fear. Fear from what is on the other side of those boundries. For all they know the war could be imaginary; if it is only visible to them on TV then what is to say that it is fictional and is only televised to put fear into those who dont know anything different. If they were premitted beyond the boundries what might they find? Fear of the unknown is keeping this society together. Fear from stepping out of the ordinary. Fear from not being told what to do.
-Brandon Reddick
"'Yes, I am happy,' I murmur. I have to say something. What else can I say?"
ReplyDeleteI found this quote particularly interesting because it made me think about women in the cultures that the article we read last week spoke about; where women are forced to wear headdresses and not be seen by any men but their husbands. I know that these real life circumstances are often misrepresented and portrayed in an egocentric light, but this quote really made me think, what can they do? What if they really don’t like it, but there are “Eyes” all around making sure that they pretend like they want it. What can they say when reporters, journalists, interested tourists ask them if they are happy? Can they say no? What will happen if they do? I don’t know the answer to those questions and I certainly don’t know if even one person is happy or unhappy in these cultures, but this quote made me look at the women in a way that I hadn’t really thought of before.
Marina,
ReplyDeleteI really like your choice of quote, for as I came across that one in my reading I jumped a little and re-read it to make sure I understood exactly what was being said. The fact that there is someone in that world willing to break the rules, completely shatter the system in place was astounding to me. This quote certainly seems to foreshadow some light at the end of the tunnel, maybe a way out, maybe there is a rebellion at hand. Then again, on the other hand, maybe the doctor is an “Eye”. Maybe the doctor is just a very sexually frustrated man who is taking advantage of his position to get sex. Maybe the doctor really does want to help, but will be hanging on the wall the next day. That whole passage is very meaningful in the novel, the fact that there is an exception anywhere is very interesting to me. It truly seemed like the system was perfect, that there were no points of weakness now that all the bugs had been worked out. But the doctors office at least seems to be a source of hope, of freedom, of choice, making this passage very important to the story and novel as a whole.
Steph,
ReplyDeleteYour quote really does convey the idea of how restricted life is for these women. The women honestly have nothing to look forward to other than pregnancy. That is what their life is revolved around, at least for the handmaids. All the other women that are not handmaids are only not in that position becaues of their inability to conceive children. It is hard to imagine a world this restricted, but in fact it isnt too far off from the society we live in today. Women's lives revolve around their sex more often than not, it is just more subtle in our world than it is in the book.
Brandon,
ReplyDeleteYour quote that you chose seems to match up perfectly with what is going on in the US today; or atleast I feel it is the same. I feel that we are not informed about the war that the US is in right now. The only thing that seems to appear on the TV is how many US troops have been injured or hurt. I feel like I know nothing about the war except statistics on injuries. To me that doesn't seem right that we are hidden behind closed doors when it comed to what is going on over seas.
The quote I chose was from Chapter 5, pg. 24
ReplyDelete"There is more than one kind of freedom...Freedom to and freedom from. In the days of anarchy, it was freedom to. Now you are being given freedom from. Don't underrate it."
I chose this because it really sets the stage for the reader and makes them think about how things were before all of society was changed and morphed into this subordination of women. It delivers a clear separation between what this society was "intended" to do, and what it is actually doing. Sure the upper class men are doing fine and women are safer overall. The shift from "freedom to" to "freedom from" caused things like women being free to speak out and walk around the city to a more veiled society where some women, like the handmaids, are rarely even looked at by men. Sure, the women now have "freedom from" harm, thievery, and whatever else may happen if they get caught walking alone, but they also lost all their "freedom to" speak out or make changes in their society.
Peter,
ReplyDeleteI like the point you made because it deals with the fear that these handmaids are dealing with. It is not a fear that the Eyes might see them steal, or do something noteworthy. This fear goes deeper into their social life right down to the very conversations the handmaids have. To answer one of your questions I think that the handmaids actually would be punished for saying differently, because this society is supposed to be perfect, and when people are not happy society is far from perfect. So why not just take the easy way out and eliminate the people who are unhappy and may speak out? They are already taking drastic measures to make their society work in the way that it is, so what is one more? Also, good job on relating the quote to the lesson about Muslim women being forced to cover their faces in public. That directly correlates to how handmaids are barely looked at by men and especially Guardians. Good job!